FOR ALL THOSE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE C7 Z06 BEING SUPERCHARGED

"mr. idk" (mr-idk) 01/08/2014 at 16:57 • Filed to: CORVETTE

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Consider one of the possible reasons why the Z06 is supercharged

Question : How much horsepower does the viper have?

Answer : 640...where are you going with this?

Question : Is it possible for GM to make a corvette with a small-block V8 engine with 640 horsepower that is naturally aspirated, reliable, relatively cheap to maintain, and with a displacement of 7 liters, while avoiding the gass-guzzler label, and keeping the price well under $100k?

Answer : No.

And there you have it. Imho, there is simply no way chevy can compete with a viper while using a naturally aspirated engine, Which is why I believe that they made the right decision by supercharging the Z06 so that they could take down the viper, and other high-end sports cars while keeping the costs low, even though it would be cool to have a 427 stingray. Thats what I think. What do you think?

Textured Soy Protein > mr. idk 01/08/2014 at 16:58

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I think the Z06 is supercharged because it's actually replacing the ZR1.

Tom McParland > mr. idk 01/08/2014 at 16:59

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Seems legit

briannutter1 > mr. idk 01/08/2014 at 17:00

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You made that so simple. I think a 600hp NA engine could have been done with what they've learned since the ls7, but trackrats will be happy as long as it doesn't heat soak.

Bad Idea Hat > mr. idk 01/08/2014 at 17:03

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I don't care if they put a goddamn nuclear reactor in there. Well, I would care because that's kind of unsafe, and would be a teensy bit costly, but you get the point. A car goes via its engine, and if people want the car to go and go quick, then they're going to have to do things. Occasionally, they like to do things to save costs as well.

If someone were to walk up to me and say "you get a free car with 200 hp or a free car with 500 hp, both at the same weight, what do you want?" I don't really ask questions at that point.

CAFIFTY > mr. idk 01/08/2014 at 17:06

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Well played sir, well played.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > mr. idk 01/08/2014 at 17:07

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Agreed, and I really hope the next viper is a twin turbo'd V8 or a supercharged one. 640HP is a lot, but it's coming from an archaic power plant that can't keep up with Corvette. Honestly, If Fiat keeps Chrysler, it would be nice to see some Ferrari turbo tech on the Viper.

mr. idk > briannutter1 01/08/2014 at 17:09

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I think they mightve been able to get around 600 horses out of the LS7, but that still is alot of hp for an NA V8. And since the ZR1 didnt heat soak much im sure that the Z06 wont have too many problems.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > Textured Soy Protein 01/08/2014 at 17:10

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That doesn't feel right....

HammerheadFistpunch > mr. idk 01/08/2014 at 17:16

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Frankly, I think the track car should have an NA engine, even at lower power levels. It's supposed to be lighter and focused. Save the big HP for the ZR1. Its not like LS7 owners were complaining about lack of power. And whats the point in comparing the slow selling, super nichey viper?

It's a "Porch-uh" > mr. idk 01/08/2014 at 17:19

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Who's complaining?

Oh, people who have a problem with any little change.

GhostZ > briannutter1 01/08/2014 at 17:21

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600 out of the small block, even with the highest displacement possible (LS7, 7 liters) with its current dyno profile (~500HP @ 6200rpm) yields specific power equivalent to around 100% VE (in reality, it's a little lower, and premium fuel/high compression improves that). To reach 600HP on this engine, it would require the following:

1. An additional 1100 rpm before peak. This means that the engine will have to be able to reach around 8000 rpm. This means a significantly improved valvetrain, especially since it's still using pushrods, not OHCs.

OR

2. An improvement in "equivalent" VE by by 15% or more. This is, quite frankly, impossible without nitromethane, extremely high compression, or some form of boost, and could not ever be street-able.

OR

3. An additional 60-70 cubic inches. Given the bore spacing of the LS block, max bore is 4.25 inches. This means the stroke must be 4.25 inches as well, this is .125 inches more bore than the stock LS7, and .25 inches longer stroke. This gives a mean piston speed of 4300-4500 ft/min, over 4100-4300 ft/min of the stock LS7. So, this is the most likely option for GM to be able to build a 600HP N/A LS engine for street use. However, 480 CI will probably make the fuel economy drop down far enough to make it difficult to sell.

OR

4. +3 psi of boost on the stock LS7.

When you're trying to decide which of those options costs the least money, it becomes pretty clear why they're doing it.

mr. idk > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 01/08/2014 at 17:22

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yeah i cant imagine that Chrysler is just going to keep raising the displacement until they have a 10 liter V10. Sooner or later theyre gonna have to break down and use forced induction of some sort if they're gonna win the horsepower wars

mr. idk > HammerheadFistpunch 01/08/2014 at 17:27

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But is having a NA engine reaaaaalllllyyyyyyyy worth it if the car is substantially slower? and regardless of the viper, theres no way that the Z06 would compete with anything from nissan, ferrari, lamborghini, porsche, mercedes, bmw, or audi with less than 600 horses

Textured Soy Protein > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 01/08/2014 at 17:31

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I don't think GM is in a rush to make a new ZR1.

From what we know about the C7 Z06, it's already going to be just as fancy if not fancier than the C6 ZR1. Supercharged motor, carbon fiber everywhere, active rear diff, etc.

Hopefully it'll be cheaper than the C6 ZR1 but I have a feeling it's going to be a big bump up over the C6 Z06. Maybe it'll be priced like the C6 Z07. I wouldn't be surprised at all if it starts at $85k.

Milky > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 01/08/2014 at 17:32

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GTFO on two accounts.

1 - you want a V8 viper

2 - you act like its plausible Ferrari tech could go in a viper. There is a pecking order in Italy, you don't tread on #1 aka Maserati/Alfa

HammerheadFistpunch > mr. idk 01/08/2014 at 17:35

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Substantially slower is dependent on the track. Around long fast courses, maybe, but weight and CG will pay bigger dividends on most tracks than will more HP. They are making it the way they are making it, and im sure it will be great, but I really don't see the reason to ditch the LS7 for the track focused Zo6(or 7 or whatever they want to call it). I liked it when the Z06 was about light weight, and focused. This HP war business is just academic.

Milky > mr. idk 01/08/2014 at 17:43

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Track car /= heat soak & honestly do they even care about the viper? They all ready sell boat loads more. I think 560-580hp out of NA engine would of been perfect. Right along the lines of a 911 Turbo too.

Saracen > mr. idk 01/08/2014 at 17:44

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Complaining about combining the best features of the C6 Z06 (light weight) with the best feature of the ZR1 (dat engine)? that's crazy.

It's like peanut butter AND chocolate. I think a supercharged Z06 is fantastic.

I think they're also doing this do push the Z06 upmarket and differentiate it from the new Camaro Z/28. After all, the C6 Z06 started right around the Z/28's $75k price tag.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > Textured Soy Protein 01/08/2014 at 17:58

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well. That's a hell of a lot of car for $85k!

Textured Soy Protein > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 01/08/2014 at 18:02

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Yeah, I guess we'll see how much they end up charging.

briannutter1 > GhostZ 01/08/2014 at 19:08

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500ci you say? I like your style. My aftermarket buddies at SAM, ERL, and I had a little fun with this project in 2006. OE LS7 heads and intake. http://ls1tech.com/forums/generat… . We've got another 8 years of parts development since then and could crutch down a canted valve headed 454 to 600 crank horsepower pretty easily.

The UV8 held/holds promise and pushes all the right buttons, but as you say it doesn't make a lot of sense to pull that out of the bag just yet if the expense isn't justified. Tom Stephens may yet get his way though.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > Milky 01/08/2014 at 20:02

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First off, I love Mopar and especially love the Viper, it's a wet dream of mine (Blue 1996 GTS). But, it's not what it was about 8 t 10 years ago. Sure it's refined, but it's now a bit dull and out of the race. Yes, I want a V8 Viper, sure it was cool all those years to say, oooohh a V10, but now that everything is downsizing. Hell, the Mustang is going to have a 4 banger. SRT needs to grow, and honestly the Viper hasn't really progressed.

For the second point, I would think that if Viper sales are in the shitter, which the aren't too far from, AND Fiat wants another Viper generation in a few years, someone might teach SRT how to turbocharge and engine. That was all. Honestly, a V8 with 2 small turbos would work wonders for that car. Let's get over muscle cars, they were utter shit. I love them, but they couldn't turn and the quality was 1950s at best.

With that being said, it's time for SRT to get it's ass out of the stone age, yes that includes the pig-like Challenger too.

Milky > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 01/08/2014 at 20:55

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The world we live in ….. 640hp … 'out of the race'.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > Milky 01/08/2014 at 21:08

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It's not all about horsepower though. And it's also the fact that Chrysler still needs 10 cylinders to make 640hp.

ihm96 > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 01/08/2014 at 21:50

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They need to make sure they don't take away the crazy/insane trait that make sthe viper special. There already is a refined version of the Viper (the SLS), which is certainly an amazing car, but I think that if the Viper tries to be the corvette, it will lose its personality. However, a V8 twin-turbo is in no way a GTFO idea, I think it sounds like an awesome, slightly crazy idea that fits in with the viper's ethos. Or they could go more batshit crazy and make a V10 twin turbo, if that is even possible.

Shoop > ihm96 01/09/2014 at 02:09

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what they will do is compromise. I9 anyone?

Goshen, formerly Darkcode > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 01/09/2014 at 15:03

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Lamborghini needs 10 cylinders to make 601.

Atomic Buffalo > mr. idk 01/09/2014 at 23:24

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The people complaining don't understand how close to the ragged edge the LS7 was.

For Sweden > mr. idk 01/10/2014 at 01:19

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The answer is NASCAR engine.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > Goshen, formerly Darkcode 01/10/2014 at 15:11

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5.2 litres, not 8.4